2)we think all men are rapists
3)we think women are worth more than men
4)we sit around whining and not trying to make things better for ourselves or other women
5)focusing on women and wanting women only spaces makes us sexist
6)if we talk about oppression we have been on the receiving end of as women we are "tarring all men with the same brush" or "bashing men" or "reveling in our victim status"
7)were anti sex
for me feminism is about ending opresion, all opression, it is about giving women a voice, education, saftey,political power, equal pay,reproductive choice, bodily autonomy,it is about learning and teaching that women matter, it is working for the right of women everywhere to have independance and self determination.
It is about giving us a space to talk about rape, abuse and violence and put it in a political and social context not just a personal one.
It is about supporting other women and bulding strong powerfull relationships that matter.
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nectarine_words- Jake
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I hear accusations like those so often.
I think, even if your own life is strong and independent, there are still terrible injustices in the world, and if for no other reason than solidarity, feminism is valid, important, and a moral imperative.
My objection to feminists is their low opinion of women, not men. For a start, the idea that women need special concessions from men in order to succeed in their careers.
2)we think all men are rapists
I hope that view is no longer to be found amongst feminists, but certainly it was a fairly widespread view once.
3)we think women are worth more than men
My objection is that feminists tend to believe women can only be as good as men by becoming like them.
4)we sit around whining and not trying to make things better for ourselves or other women
Many do. Many even like to make things worse for women. Consider the feminists who want condoms handed out in schools so underage girls can be sexually available to boys.
5)focusing on women and wanting women only spaces makes us sexist
If men did it, you feminists would call them sexists. If the same isn't true when women do it, there's a double standard. Aren't feminists supposed to disapprove of that?
6)if we talk about oppression we have been on the receiving end of as women we are "tarring all men with the same brush" or "bashing men" or "reveling in our victim status"
If you're referring to my comments, you were at the time trying to connect real-life oppression to this "patriarchy" of yours. If that isn't tarring all men with the same brush, I don't know what is. There are bad men, just as there are bad women. I was bullied at school, but I didn't decide there was some global conspiracy to pick on me. Many, many feminists talk about how oppressed they are on the internet, with easy computer access from their comfortable middle class homes. They get offended if you don't consider them a victim. If they ever met a real victim of oppression, they would be ashamed of playing the part.
7)were anti sex
My objection is that feminists are mostly obsessed with sex and want all women to be sexually available to men at all times. Hence their support for abortion, the pill (which can cause premature death in women in their thirties, but apparently feminists are fine with that) and underage sex.
i mean , hundreds of teens go through life without getting arrested, or doing drugs or causing any problems whatever. Yet any time a teen ends up in court, you read it in the papers.
Likewise, I feel that sensible and moderate feminists are not getting the publicity reserved for the extremists like Pat Boxall.
The fact is that feminists are *not* a homogeneous mass, but a widely differing group of individuals. I certainly hope that more Feminists will come to stand for the ideals listed here.
Quite recently, in the Daily Mail of all places, there was a picture of a woman holding up a placard saying
" WAFE SAYS -
'MEN ARE THE PROBLEM' ".
So I contacted WAFE myself about this. I grew up in an era when men were allowed to beat their wives and the law did nothing about it. I feel quite entitled to point out that I ma a man myself, but what was wrong with my dad was not that he was male, but that he was a loser.
WAFE, I am pleased to say, disassociated themselves from that placard. Most proper Feminist organisations do, in fact.
yet if a woman goes out and confronts feminists with the fact that she was abused as a child, and had to physically step in and defend their mother from being beaten up by their dad, they generally get praise and sympathy.
A man doing exactly the same is still treated with suspicion, though. Michael Moore argues that women 'bat for the other side' - they have their own agenda, and we are no part of it. i have even heard women declare that a man cannot be a feminist.
Personally, yes, I can see that women do not want their cause to be hijacked, or feminist organisations become a back door for patriarchal propaganda.
And yet as long as women have children , they should face up to the fact that they just might have sons as well. so, what do they tell their sons? I have seen you write before, and am quite impressed at the stance you have taken.
However, I have to say that it isn't just my mother who disappoints me in her tone when it comes to men. We are the other 50% of the planet. We are not your natural and inevitable enemies. Sadly, although they no longer lurk in WAFE, there are still women out there who want to wave that placard.
But yes, it is time a dialogue was established. Women's problems need putting in a political and social context. I think that men can and should be doing that. And men deserve to be challenged on their silence where that isn't happening.
You make so many valid points here. My own view of feminism has been so twisted for so many years. I have been that whining man hater hiding behind the feminist name. And its people like you who have helped pull me away from that image and closer to the woman that God intended me to be. You clear up my distorted image of both myself and my God. Thank you for that.
If youre able, I would really like for you to return to the community. If you like we can talk about whatever you would need in order for that to happen. If youre not able, then I understand and I wish you blessings and healing and peace. Thank you for sharing the time with us that you did.
Your Sister in Christ,
C